tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post8880380501783207991..comments2023-06-16T03:54:00.078-05:00Comments on From Austin to A&M: Doctor Who fans are uncomfortable with women who want what they want.Courtneyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17351518605068734277noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-18193627778515787742010-08-03T09:36:11.584-05:002010-08-03T09:36:11.584-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Courtneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17351518605068734277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-47159613337651355602010-08-03T09:35:32.611-05:002010-08-03T09:35:32.611-05:00Anonymous,
So unless Amy and Rose are perfect abo...Anonymous,<br /><br />So unless Amy and Rose are perfect about their partnered relationships, they're terrible people? I try to give people a little more room to be human, even in television shows, no matter their gender. <br /><br />Frankly, I find Amy's actions completely predictable (except for the not giving a shit about the Doctor's consent part) after her first crazy, adrenaline-filled adventure. How the other companions kept themselves from jumping the Doctor after *their* first times is almost incomprehensible to me.<br /><br />And, frankly, I think Amy *does* think it would be hard to say "sorry, Rory, I'm not ready." He's a bit clingy, no? And she might be worried about his reaction and his feelings if he reads too much into "I'm not ready to get married," and think that means, "We need to break up." (Since those are the only two options *you* give her, maybe that's what she's afraid of.) It takes two (or more) to have a healthy relationship, and Rory seems just as uncommunicative (did you *see* how much he liked that pregnant-and-in-the-middle-of-nowhere fantasy, seemingly without noticing how fucking *unhappy* she was?) a partner. <br /><br />As for Rose, again with the not recognizing how much the male partner is to blame for their relationship. Rose was a little selfish, but we have to remember that they've known each other since childhood, and we don't actually *see* any physical reminders of a romantic relationship after Mickey refuses to go on the TARDIS with her. For all we know, when she says in the alternate universe, "What if I need you?" she means what if I need the only other friend I have in the world besides my mom? Just because *he* interprets it to mean what if I need a boyfriend doesn't mean that he's right.<br /><br />Mickey holds a torch for her without a whole lot of encouragement from her, and he walks through those first two seasons with his eyes wide open. Rose *should* have talked to him about it, but he could have initiated a conversation just as easily. The blame for their awkward relationship is not just hers.<br /><br />So, yeah, when you only blame female characters for dysfunctional relationships, even when their male partners are just as uncommunicative and unresponsive to their partners' feelings as the women, I hesitate to call that better than slut-shaming.Courtneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17351518605068734277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-24308360821173088762010-08-03T04:10:22.813-05:002010-08-03T04:10:22.813-05:00ACtually, what you're calling 'slut shamin...ACtually, what you're calling 'slut shaming' I feel I would have said had Amy been male. I wasn't upset by her wanting sex, I was upset about her wanting sex when she's in a serious relationship and I would be with ANYONE of any gender who tried to jump someone when they're already partnered off to someone who wouldn't be happy. She doesn't respect Rory which in and of itself is fine, but what ISN'T fine is that she has agreed to marry him. She already thinks she knows she doesn't want to. It' wrong to keep someone hanging on and it doesn't take much to say 'sorry Rory, I'm not ready'. Then she'd be free to chase who she wants and best of luck to her. <br />It's the same reason I dislike Rose, because they don't treat their current partners well, which should ALWAYS be a prerequisite when you lead someone to believe you're in a serious relationship with them. It's a responsibility which Amy shirks. Running away on the night of her wedding was a spur of the moment thing; after that she should have been prepared to treat Rory with some respect and tell him she wasn't interested. I'm sorry, but you don't treat people that way. That she was excited and impulsive is no excuse to hurt someone, even if he'll never know. She acted not like a slut, but like a disrespectful and selfish person. THAT is the problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-59371865578850488212010-07-15T15:48:20.903-05:002010-07-15T15:48:20.903-05:00*Has anyone else noticed that Doctor Who has prett...<i>*Has anyone else noticed that Doctor Who has pretty much NEVER had an episode pass the Bechdel test? Even when the show has two women (very rarely), all they really ever talk about is the Doctor.</i><br /><br />Seriously? Because my impression is the exact opposite. Given the structure of the show - a central character around whose superhuman capabilities the story turns - it's inevitable that when the other characters talk to each other, a lot of the time it will about him. Nevertheless, the show manages to pass the Bechdel test quite regularly.<br /><br />Off the top of my head:<br /><br />In 'Silence in the Library'/'Forests of the Dead', Donna talks with Miss Evangelista about many things. In 'Turn Left', she talks to several female characters about the monster on her back, with Rose about several things, with the Female UNIT commander about some techie stuff. In 'the Fires of Pompey' she talks with the female soothsayer about her powers. In 'Blink' Sparrow talks to Nightingale about several things. In 'New Earth' Rose talks with Cassandra about Cassandra. In 'Human Nature', Martha discusses women's rights with the servant who was later possessed by Mother of Mine. In 'Utopia' she talks with Chan-tho about the latter's speech patterns. In 'Boom Town', Margaret Blaine talks to the reporter about the latter's pregnancy (and it thereby motivated to spare her.). In 'School Reunion' Rose and Sarah Jane Smith have a pissing contest over who has seen the most terrible monsters. In Tooth and Claw, Rose organises the servants to save themselves from the monster.<br /><br />That's just off the top of my head. I bet I'll think of more examples just as soon as I post this.Daranhttp://www.feministcritics.org/blog/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-18498643140617473152010-07-02T08:25:48.972-05:002010-07-02T08:25:48.972-05:00Treehouse,
You're welcome! If you're look...Treehouse,<br /><br />You're welcome! If you're looking for other blogs to talk about DW, <a href="http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/search/label/doctor%20who%20open%20thread" rel="nofollow">Shakesville has a Doctor Who open thread every week</a>. They're on the BBCA schedule, though, so be careful with the spoilers.Courtneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17351518605068734277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-55809827613328476362010-07-02T08:21:58.638-05:002010-07-02T08:21:58.638-05:00It's no secret to people who know me that I...It's no secret to people who know me that I'm not a fan of Amy Pond. I'm coming around since the last three episodes, but it was a long time coming. <br /><br />This scene bothered me, not because it was a woman, but because I think anyone who doesn't listen to "no" is a jerk. I don't want to think of Amy as cold or unfeeling- because she isn't...usually. <br /><br />I think my issues come from this feeling I get that Moff doesn't like women much- and it's showing the strongest in Amy. Whether that's because she represents more fear (second in command and smart) to him or because she simply has more screen time; that's up for debate.<br /><br />For me, this scene is just another example of Moffat showing his fear and misunderstanding of a powerful woman. <br /><br />Lord knows, I can't voice that opinion on GB- I'd be burned at the stake I'm sure! Thank you for having a safe space where I could voice this- as it's been bothering my husband and I for quite some time.Treehouse Photographyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195906553874030881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-28820499147771604632010-07-01T08:20:47.523-05:002010-07-01T08:20:47.523-05:00@Punning,
It's not like you have to hate Amy ...@Punning,<br /><br />It's not like you have to hate Amy after watching this scene critically. (Although it does make me very, very uncomfortable to watch again, and I think that's a good thing.) I think Amy is still a good person, and that if anyone sat her down and talked to her about sexual assault and the importance of respecting someone's voiced or bodily "no," she would get it.Courtneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17351518605068734277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-31959117344243401242010-06-30T20:16:03.606-05:002010-06-30T20:16:03.606-05:00I hadn't really considered that scene from a s...I hadn't really considered that scene from a standpoint of sexual assault. And now, much like the "Willow raped Tara" thing from Buffy-- I can't _unsee_ it. And that's too bad; the scene is funny (to me) for reasons I'll get into in a bit.<br /><br />To try and make the scene watchable, I'm going to imagine that at some point the Doctor pulls each companion aside and says "If I ever really, _really_ mean no, I'll use my safe word. It's my real name." After all, there's only one time the doctor would ever reveal his real name...<br /><br />What made the scene funny, to me, was the juxtaposition of the smart, beautiful woman saying "yes" and someone saying "no". It's just so.. unexpected? My laughter would have been the same (I think) if she'd thrown a pie in his face. <br /><br />Additionally, I tend to react with mirth to the Doctor's enthusiasm. When he starts to really geek out over a topic, I tend to smile and laugh. A lot of my friends do too. Amy was basically geeking out over the idea of sleeping with the doctor. At least, that's how it seemed to me.<br /><br />I am disappointed to learn that anyone watched that scene and thought poorly of Amy...Punning Pundithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02199083316397173960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-79165080063735361722010-06-29T16:22:18.280-05:002010-06-29T16:22:18.280-05:00I squee, and I am not ashamed. I just found your b...I squee, and I am not ashamed. I just found your blog and I love it. I am a new DW fan and I have a lady brain also, so it's good to find a place to safely discuss/dissect/squee (nothing wrong with a little squeeing) about it. Yay for feminist critique of sci-fi!!R.B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05865549528010761178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-66780116503635954612010-06-29T15:10:06.915-05:002010-06-29T15:10:06.915-05:00Courtney,
I fully don't know if there's s...Courtney,<br /><br />I fully don't know if there's something wrong or something RIGHT with me that I never once even thought about the fact that Amy tried to kill herself with the van while pregnant. I really loved the "Amy's Choice" episode, honestly, and I found the whole Rory death scene fantastic in the way it was handled - the doctor had a very fallible, almost human moment in his response of "Not always" to Amy's desperate plea of "You always save everybody." And Amy, to me, became a much stronger character by essentially taking charge of her destiny in that moment and dragging the DOCTOR behind her, as opposed to the other way around.<br /><br />Truthfully, I was so pulled in by that moment that I totally forgot about the entire pregnancy issue, though prior to that moment I was very aware of it and was glad that Amy wasn't constantly smiling down at her own stomach as though she was smuggling the cure for cancer in there.<br /><br />One of the ways I interpreted the moment (and the episode in general)was in an adult-child context, wherein the Doctor is generally the adult and his companion(s, including Rory) are basically just kids he babysits. The Doctor is older and supposedly wiser than them, so he generally makes no sense and seems to pull solutions out of thin air. His companion Amy, in the moment of Rory's death, really showed off a child-like innocence (maybe we can interpret that specific moment as a true regression) in her request that the Doctor essentially resurrect Rory, and when he reveals that he can't, Amy sees that he isn't God, he doesn't have all the answers, he just wings it like we do - all the things that many of us inevitably figure out regarding adults. To me that is a moment of innocence and naivete lost (the whole thing isn't a fun adventure or an escape anymore), and as such Amy takes responsibility for what happens to her, as opposed to careening around without a plan.<br /><br />--LeeLeeboZeebohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15287503723067577333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-15801636257494818312010-06-24T09:35:56.849-05:002010-06-24T09:35:56.849-05:00Wow. I'm sorry. I didn't read my comments ...Wow. I'm sorry. I didn't read my comments like that at all. I wasn't saying that she should want babies because she is a woman, I just that it seemed odd she would not give it a second thought given she was 8 months pregnant and seemed happy with the situation when the episode began. That's what struck me as odd. I didn't mean to come across as a misogynist!<br /><br />NeilNeil Perrymanhttp://www.tachyon-tv.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-70028879377335818262010-06-16T09:04:02.408-05:002010-06-16T09:04:02.408-05:00Gemma, I love you a little bit. And, in response t...Gemma, I love you a little bit. And, in response to your first comment here, Doctor Who IS important stuff. So don't feel bad. :)Courtneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17351518605068734277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-79945905581250532042010-06-15T15:32:26.290-05:002010-06-15T15:32:26.290-05:00Oh but Courtney, we are ladies, clearly we only go...Oh but Courtney, we are ladies, clearly we only got into Doctor Who because the Doctor is, like, totally hawt these days. And OMG, Amy Pond has such cute outfits! Or, I dunno, something.<br /><br />Anonymous, I'm a life-long Doctor Who fan too. I can see my DVDs of The Green Death and The Brain of Morbius from where I'm sitting- episodes I remembered from my childhood and bought for that exact reason. Just because I'm a woman, that doesn't mean I suddenly decided to start liking science fiction because I wanted to squee- and so what if some of us do squee sometimes? What, I can't get excited about my favourite TV show? Fuck that noise.<br /><br />I hate this 'real fans' crap. Female-identified Whovians get it all the damn time. I am so, so sick of people telling women who happen to like sci-fi that we're not good enough. You know what? We are good enough. That's why Courtney can do critical analysis of the damn series in the first place.Gemmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06075728435255928088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-64545228070765922612010-06-15T11:04:53.242-05:002010-06-15T11:04:53.242-05:00Anonymous, don't be a douche. You decided befo...Anonymous, don't be a douche. You decided before you even read anything that I'm not a "real" fan, and calling my analysis of Doctor Who and its fandom "mindless squeeing" is just fucking inaccurate. Even if you don't agree with me, you can't possibly think that critical analysis is "mindless" or "squeeing," unless, of course, you've decided beforehand that lady DW fans (particulalry those who only watch NuWho) are dumb and squeeing. In which case, you are part of the problem.Courtneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17351518605068734277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-75157633670326660392010-06-14T07:03:33.128-05:002010-06-14T07:03:33.128-05:00Sigh, yes I did read your posts and your comments ...Sigh, yes I did read your posts and your comments and I stand by what I say. And actually as a life-long Doctor Who fan I do know what I'm talking about. I actually remember this the first time round.<br /><br />Yes it is out there and I have found this is usually a good way of filtering the real fans from the dribbling idiots. <br /><br />Even so the framing of certain characters on the show is utter rubbish. <br /><br />Anyway I'll leaving you to your mindless squeeing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-83548262293457484322010-06-08T17:54:40.711-05:002010-06-08T17:54:40.711-05:00Anonymous, just because people you know personally...Anonymous, just because people you know personally don't say homophobic things about Jack, or don't slut-shame Amy, that doesn't mean this stuff isn't out there. I know that my experience isn't the only kind of DW fandom, which is why I asked Courtney about her experiences of people's reactions to a character. If you'd framed your post as 'I've found that people disliked X because of Y instead of Z' as opposed to talking like you know exactly what all fans think then that would have been awesome- but you came across as thinking you know better than the rest of us.<br /><br />As it happens, since you brought Sarah Jane into it... in her spin-off show, she has an adopted son who she looks after on her own, and at one point she almost gets married. I'm not saying that changing her relationship with the Doctor is totally cool, but it's not as much of an issue since she's still generally shown as a capable woman with her own life.Gemmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06075728435255928088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-34390062578460945582010-06-08T09:08:38.239-05:002010-06-08T09:08:38.239-05:00Anonymous, Did you actually read the post? Because...Anonymous, Did you actually read the post? Because I quoted or linked to the places where Amy's assertiveness and desires, when they break from the traditional lady narrative, have resulted in slut-shaming and other sexist bullshit.<br /><br />I imagine the Gary Sue policing of gay men to be almost as problematic (that is, sexist) as the Mary Sue policing in fan fic, so, still not okay.<br /><br />And, besides, anyone who calls the classic series the real series can go hang out with the Trek fans who do the same thing on Asshole Island and leave the rest of us alone.Courtneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17351518605068734277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-48813021207784964452010-06-08T06:41:52.712-05:002010-06-08T06:41:52.712-05:00I'd like to know where exactly you're gett...I'd like to know where exactly you're getting this idea that Amy's assertiveness is a problem. She certainly should have stopped trying to hump the doctor when he objected, I'd have thought that would have gone without saying. Her mode of dress is certainly no different than those of the companions of the classic (real) series and I don't know a single fan who is objecting whether they like the new series or not. Futhermore, taking a classic series companion, Sarah-Jane Smith, and transforming her from a strong confident character into someone still hung up on a man, no matter how remarkable, is more offensive by far. Especially since we later see that she regrets not having children and is a lonely and rather sad spinster, even with K9 to keep her company. <br /><br />And for the record Captain Harkness was NOT objected to because of his polysexuality (he was mostly gay, but seemed happy to shag anyone imo), but because he was a hideous parody of gay men, and RTD gary-sue to boot. No-one has a problem with his preferred choice of partner.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-86971349143837288442010-06-07T20:03:28.230-05:002010-06-07T20:03:28.230-05:00Great post.
Just thinking about episodes of the o...Great post.<br /><br />Just thinking about episodes of the original series that pass the Bechdel test - there aren't many sets of companions with more than one woman involved. I think Barbara talks to Susan about various facts of history (since Barbara is set up as Susan's history teacher, it makes sense to talk about the historical stuff they actually visit from time to time!). I know that in Castrovalva (early '80s) Nyssa and Tegan discuss trying to fly/mend the TARDIS themselves. In Dragonfire, Ace talks to Mel about her childhood without reference to any men. There's two women scientists in Remembrance of the Daleks who talk about retiring and growing begonias (seeing as the alien tech outstrips anything they know) - but that gets interrupted by the Doctor - there's also a scene where Ace explains about the Daleks' racial purity civil war to one of the women scientists. In Battlefield, Ace and a local girl of her own age talk about a shared interest in explosives (and Morgan Le Fey talks to Ace and the local character about how she'll set a monster on them unless they give up Excalibur).<br /><br />I don't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the original series (there were a LOT of stories over 26 seasons!), but those are the episodes that spring to mind.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-17954061704790132102010-06-06T14:19:09.112-05:002010-06-06T14:19:09.112-05:00Gemma,
No, Jack Harkness seems to be pretty popul...Gemma,<br /><br />No, Jack Harkness seems to be pretty popular. (The creation and success of Torchwood seem predicated on the popularity of this one character, after all.) Any negative reaction to him has been mostly homophobic, not slut-shaming, and there's not tons of that in the DW fan community. Jack may not be a stereotype, but there's more room for that in a man than there's room for female characters to step outside the boundaries of being a lady.Courtneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17351518605068734277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2627855023521770072.post-34246387004031208012010-06-03T15:32:05.210-05:002010-06-03T15:32:05.210-05:00So, first of all, I'm sorry that I only commen...So, first of all, I'm sorry that I only comment on your Doctor Who posts and not on more important stuff.<br /><br />Anyway.<br /><br />YES. I AGREE. GOD DAMN.<br /><br />I've been finding it pretty difficult to describe how I feel about Amy trying to get it on with the Doctor- on the one hand, it was uncomfortable to see the Doctor saying no and not being heard, but on the other hand, the reaction from the online community was "Amy is such a whore". What, because she has the hots for the Doctor and not you? Gah. I mean, yes, her behaviour in that scene was problematic but we have to talk about it in a mature fashion and actually discuss the real issue- i.e. lack of consent- rather than resorting to knee-jerk misogyny.<br /><br />Also, I was wondering- have you seen any negative reactions to Jack Harkness over the last few years? I was just thinking that if people react this way to a woman not being a stereotype, Captain Jack would probably scare them too, and yet I haven't really seen any bad feeling towards that character. I'm just curious as to whether it's out there as part of a general 'Doctor who fans can be really horrible' thing.Gemmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06075728435255928088noreply@blogger.com